Themler - Template Toaster or stick with Artisteer?

Pixie Magic
60 Posts
Pixie Magic posted this 02 January 2018

I get on really well with Artisteer building websites for clients although I have never been a fan of Wordpress, so 50% of projects are standalone websites and I only use WP, when clients really need a CMS. I have toyed with moving over to Themler (and even purchased product), but the lack of a quick start manual or decent video instructions (+ silly music), has left me unsure that this product will be any quicker or better than Artisteer.

Now i have read good things about TemplateToaster, see head to head review - https://templatetoastervsartisteer.wordpress.com/
...and wanted to check with Themler support if they have written a response to the TemplateToaster comparison with Themler before i move forward.

I also hear reasonable things about Squarespace, Wix. Weebly, Duda and such like, but as they charge per site i feel they are of no use for web designers. Any alternative views?

From my research so far i feel my best bet is to either go with Template Toaster or Themler, but lack of positive reviews and poor instructions is currently leaning me over to template Toaster.

Also does anyone have any views on which e-commerce solution is the best way forward?
Shopify or Actinic? ...or perhaps Woo Commerce or something else that links with Themler?

All suggestions, review links and facts appreciated.

Many Thanks

I get on really well with Artisteer building websites for clients although I have never been a fan of Wordpress, so 50% of projects are standalone websites and I only use WP, when clients really need a CMS. I have toyed with moving over to Themler (and even purchased product), but the lack of a quick start manual or decent video instructions (+ silly music), has left me unsure that this product will be any quicker or better than Artisteer. Now i have read good things about TemplateToaster, see head to head review - https://templatetoastervsartisteer.wordpress.com/ ...and wanted to check with Themler support if they have written a response to the TemplateToaster comparison with Themler before i move forward. I also hear reasonable things about Squarespace, Wix. Weebly, Duda and such like, but as they charge per site i feel they are of no use for web designers. Any alternative views? From my research so far i feel my best bet is to either go with Template Toaster or Themler, but lack of positive reviews and poor instructions is currently leaning me over to template Toaster. Also does anyone have any views on which e-commerce solution is the best way forward? Shopify or Actinic? ...or perhaps Woo Commerce or something else that links with Themler? All suggestions, review links and facts appreciated. Many Thanks
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34 Comments
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jonathan44
10 Posts
Is Solution
jonathan44 posted this 02 January 2018

Wix and Weebly are ok but limited. I tried template toaster free version and it seems ok. My point of view of Themler is that the software is incredible and I like that it supports Woocommerce. You can do almost anything with it.
Unfortunately the lack of documentation and a structured support solution is horrendous. They have 1 great support person on the forum but this is only one person supporting way too many customers. I'm hoping they will sort this out. The learning curve was very steep for me and there have been times when I want to tear my hair out with this product. I have built a couple of full wordpress sites for clients with it but at the moment, I'm using it mainly for headers and footers and combining it with Elementor page builder. I'm starting to enjoy it after struggling for ages. If you have already paid for it, then it is worth taking the time to learn it. Bottom line is that it is very powerful software that beats most others but there will be times when you want to throw your computer out the window and no one will help.

Wix and Weebly are ok but limited. I tried template toaster free version and it seems ok. My point of view of Themler is that the software is incredible and I like that it supports Woocommerce. You can do almost anything with it. Unfortunately the lack of documentation and a structured support solution is horrendous. They have 1 great support person on the forum but this is only one person supporting way too many customers. I'm hoping they will sort this out. The learning curve was very steep for me and there have been times when I want to tear my hair out with this product. I have built a couple of full wordpress sites for clients with it but at the moment, I'm using it mainly for headers and footers and combining it with Elementor page builder. I'm starting to enjoy it after struggling for ages. If you have already paid for it, then it is worth taking the time to learn it. Bottom line is that it is very powerful software that beats most others but there will be times when you want to throw your computer out the window and no one will help.
Pixie Magic
60 Posts
Pixie Magic posted this 02 January 2018

Thanks for the feedback. I don't know much about Woo commerce, but do need to think about e-commerce as my web design business grows.

BTW
I'd also like to add the following link so as to avoid confusion with my original post.
TemplateToaster vs Themler - https://templatetoastervsthemler.wordpress.com/

Thanks for the feedback. I don't know much about Woo commerce, but do need to think about e-commerce as my web design business grows. BTW I'd also like to add the following link so as to avoid confusion with my original post. TemplateToaster vs Themler - https://templatetoastervsthemler.wordpress.com/
DaveOzric
718 Posts
DaveOzric posted this 02 January 2018

No idea who wrote that review, did you?

I tried Template Toaster a long time ago and it was not as good as Artisteer. I got used to Themler finally and can't imagine TT is better. Is TT Bootstrap?

No idea who wrote that review, did you? I tried Template Toaster a long time ago and it was not as good as Artisteer. I got used to Themler finally and can't imagine TT is better. Is TT Bootstrap?
Pixie Magic
60 Posts
Pixie Magic posted this 02 January 2018

No not I. But that review is putting a lot of people off Themler as found easily in Google searches! I never used TT , I still use Artisteer which is good and fast. But i am not convinced with Themler due to lack of documentation and advancement.

No not I. But that review is putting a lot of people off Themler as found easily in Google searches! I never used TT , I still use Artisteer which is good and fast. But i am not convinced with Themler due to lack of documentation and advancement.
DaveOzric
718 Posts
DaveOzric posted this 02 January 2018

Themler has the worst marketing I have ever seen. Strange to me.

Themler has the worst marketing I have ever seen. Strange to me.
Pixie Magic
60 Posts
Pixie Magic posted this 02 January 2018

Themler has the worst marketing I have ever seen. Strange to me.

I know exactly what you mean! If they don't watch out they will miss the boat. I've had enough and I am going to move to a different product for 2018 and check back here in 2019. All the best.

> Themler has the worst marketing I have ever seen. Strange to me. I know exactly what you mean! If they don't watch out they will miss the boat. I've had enough and I am going to move to a different product for 2018 and check back here in 2019. All the best.
Bob the Goat
14 Posts
Bob the Goat posted this 03 January 2018

I'd have to say that I was disappointed when I purchased Template Toaster. I believe Artisteer is is probably still better for creating quick templates. There's just some quarks about TT that I'm not happy with.

For example, if you have a Text Area in the footer, the typography doesn't have any effect on it, I can't seem to add an underline to links and have it disappear on hover. Their support just says to highlight the link and change the text color, but there's nothing else you can do with it. That's the case with both 6 and the 7 beta. That's been a few months back that I noticed that bug. That's another thing, is they seem to come out with updates about once a month, and they've been mostly a couple bug fixes. That's what I've seen for about 6 or 8 months or so that I've had it.

But, that being said, since I've purchased it, I feel like like I should still try and use it. I'd still say, I like Artisteer better. Here's how I'd rate the programs:

Themler > Artisteer > Template Toaster

Themler is difficult to learn, and takes longer to build your themes, but you can basically do anything with it. So that's what I've been using the most. I've built some "Starter" themes in Themler to help speed along development time, with a basic layout and settings I like to use with all my themes.

I also use the Desktop version, which seems to run faster than building it within WordPress. You'll want to periodically export your themes though (with Themler) so that you can have backups of your themes. The themes will only import (into Themler) if it has Themler in it. I've lost some themes and had to start over because I've only exported the theme without Themler in it.

I'd have to say that I was disappointed when I purchased Template Toaster. I believe Artisteer is is probably still better for creating quick templates. There's just some quarks about TT that I'm not happy with. For example, if you have a Text Area in the footer, the typography doesn't have any effect on it, I can't seem to add an underline to links and have it disappear on hover. Their support just says to highlight the link and change the text color, but there's nothing else you can do with it. That's the case with both 6 and the 7 beta. That's been a few months back that I noticed that bug. That's another thing, is they seem to come out with updates about once a month, and they've been mostly a couple bug fixes. That's what I've seen for about 6 or 8 months or so that I've had it. But, that being said, since I've purchased it, I feel like like I should still try and use it. I'd still say, I like Artisteer better. Here's how I'd rate the programs: Themler > Artisteer > Template Toaster Themler is difficult to learn, and takes longer to build your themes, but you can basically do anything with it. So that's what I've been using the most. I've built some "Starter" themes in Themler to help speed along development time, with a basic layout and settings I like to use with all my themes. I also use the Desktop version, which seems to run faster than building it within WordPress. You'll want to periodically export your themes though (with Themler) so that you can have backups of your themes. The themes will only import (into Themler) if it has Themler in it. I've lost some themes and had to start over because I've only exported the theme without Themler in it.
Bob the Goat
14 Posts
Bob the Goat posted this 03 January 2018

Oh, I do believe Template Toaster does use Bootstrap. But I still prefer Artisteer over TT and Themler overall.

Oh, I do believe Template Toaster does use Bootstrap. But I still prefer Artisteer over TT and Themler overall.
DaveOzric
718 Posts
DaveOzric posted this 03 January 2018

TT always seemed like a Artisteer clone. I guess if it uses Bootstrap it's a step in the right direction. I agree with Bob, you can do what you like with Themler and TT and Artisteer are limited.

TT always seemed like a Artisteer clone. I guess if it uses Bootstrap it's a step in the right direction. I agree with Bob, you can do what you like with Themler and TT and Artisteer are limited.
Pixie Magic
60 Posts
Pixie Magic posted this 03 January 2018

Thanks for the replies guys. If any of you have a site that really shows off what Themler can do i'd be interested to see it, perhaps give me some idea what I could aspire to if i do decide to try Themler.

On the other hand i guess i could always look more closely at some of the paid themes see if they are any good and cut my learning curve on a trial project. Do you think i would save much time that way, or am i better off starting from scratch like i did with Artisteer?

PS - Themler Support Team - Do you know of a particular theme out there, that perhaps shows off what Themler does best?

Thanks

Thanks for the replies guys. If any of you have a site that really shows off what Themler can do i'd be interested to see it, perhaps give me some idea what I could aspire to if i do decide to try Themler. On the other hand i guess i could always look more closely at some of the paid themes see if they are any good and cut my learning curve on a trial project. Do you think i would save much time that way, or am i better off starting from scratch like i did with Artisteer? PS - Themler Support Team - Do you know of a particular theme out there, that perhaps shows off what Themler does best? Thanks
Support Team
Support Team posted this 22 January 2018

Hi,

Sorry for the delay in responding. And thanks for some good words about Themler. It is indeed very powerful and that also causes complexity to user on the start. Maybe our documentation is a bit limited but we are always happy to help you with all the questions and issues that you have. So please feel free to ask.
As for the site examples, unfortunately we do not collect the user sites. Maybe you can try to go through the topics on this forum and see some links from the users. Or hopefully they may share them in this topic with you.

Sincerely,
Hella

Hi, Sorry for the delay in responding. And thanks for some good words about Themler. It is indeed very powerful and that also causes complexity to user on the start. Maybe our documentation is a bit limited but we are always happy to help you with all the questions and issues that you have. So please feel free to ask. As for the site examples, unfortunately we do not collect the user sites. Maybe you can try to go through the topics on this forum and see some links from the users. Or hopefully they may share them in this topic with you. Sincerely, Hella
Pixie Magic
60 Posts
Pixie Magic posted this 30 January 2018

I have almost given up on Themler, despite that support team have really tried to help. I am sure that Themler could well be an excellent package, but at every stage i turn i face problems... and am not able to come to a conclusion if this software will answer my Reseller requirements!

In hindsight. Artisteer seems so much more powerful and easy to work with.

In the end i think what will stop me going forward and send me the way of something like template Toaster is...

  1. The lack of instructions and an organised index (book), work flow to make a simple website.

  2. The lack of instructions on how to make a white label template with my brand, etc.

  3. The lack of CMS client login options for the .html version which would allow client to edit his .html site

  4. A general lack of clarity WRT STEP by STEP instructions to get a reseller started with his first site.

I am curious how the software writers taught there support staff to use this product and if any support staff have made a website.

I suspect that the only way support staff could be taught to use this product would be with an initial hands on training session.

I wish the software writers would tale one day out to make a video showing how from a reseller perspective we can use this product to makes sites as good as we used to in Artisteer.

In any case. All the best.

I have almost given up on Themler, despite that support team have really tried to help. I am sure that Themler could well be an excellent package, but at every stage i turn i face problems... and am not able to come to a conclusion if this software will answer my Reseller requirements! In hindsight. Artisteer seems so much more powerful and easy to work with. In the end i think what will stop me going forward and send me the way of something like template Toaster is... 1. The lack of instructions and an organised index (book), work flow to make a simple website. 2. The lack of instructions on how to make a white label template with my brand, etc. 3. The lack of CMS client login options for the .html version which would allow client to edit his .html site 4. A general lack of clarity WRT STEP by STEP instructions to get a reseller started with his first site. I am curious how the software writers taught there support staff to use this product and if any support staff have made a website. I suspect that the only way support staff could be taught to use this product would be with an initial hands on training session. I wish the software writers would tale one day out to make a video showing how from a reseller perspective we can use this product to makes sites as good as we used to in Artisteer. In any case. All the best.
Support Team
Support Team posted this 31 January 2018

Hi,

I would like to leave my 2 cents here. First of all I would like to say that Artisteer is far too limited compared to Themler. It even does not work good with the responsive modes. But indeed it is easier. Themler can be considered as tool for a developer with some experience.
Your note about the documentation as indeed true, but I'm not sure that we could create a book regarding Themler as the functionality was growing in a very dynamic way when it strated. The video tutorials are also may be not clear for the first sight. Themler is a tool that requires some time and
efforts from the start but then will give you a large possibilities in designing.
And by the way, developers had not trained our support team to work with Themler. We have tried it our selves as the simple users from the start and also we did several complete sites as the experiment.
The good way to start with is maybe take one of our samples from here:
http://templates.themler.io/Themes/Index?Search.RelatedMediaId=&perPage=30&sorter=Popular&Search.Key=&Search.CategoryID=&Search.FunctionalCategoryID=&Search.TemplateCategoryID=&Search.Artisteer=False&Search.Theme=True&Search.Section=False&Search.Page=False&Search.Cms=&Search.ShowFree=False&Search.ShowPaid=False

And make some minor edits. That will give you the ready website and will help you to understand how some settings do work.

In any case, please feel free to contact us with any questions you have and we'll be glad to help you.

Sincerely,
Hella

Hi, I would like to leave my 2 cents here. First of all I would like to say that Artisteer is far too limited compared to Themler. It even does not work good with the responsive modes. But indeed it is easier. Themler can be considered as tool for a developer with some experience. Your note about the documentation as indeed true, but I'm not sure that we could create a book regarding Themler as the functionality was growing in a very dynamic way when it strated. The video tutorials are also may be not clear for the first sight. Themler is a tool that requires some time and efforts from the start but then will give you a large possibilities in designing. And by the way, developers had not trained our support team to work with Themler. We have tried it our selves as the simple users from the start and also we did several complete sites as the experiment. The good way to start with is maybe take one of our samples from here: http://templates.themler.io/Themes/Index?Search.RelatedMediaId=&perPage=30&sorter=Popular&Search.Key=&Search.CategoryID=&Search.FunctionalCategoryID=&Search.TemplateCategoryID=&Search.Artisteer=False&Search.Theme=True&Search.Section=False&Search.Page=False&Search.Cms=&Search.ShowFree=False&Search.ShowPaid=False And make some minor edits. That will give you the ready website and will help you to understand how some settings do work. In any case, please feel free to contact us with any questions you have and we'll be glad to help you. Sincerely, Hella
Pixie Magic
60 Posts
Pixie Magic posted this 31 January 2018

Hi,

I would like to leave my 2 cents here. First of all I would like to say that Artisteer is far too limited compared to Themler. It even does not work good with the responsive modes. But indeed it is easier. Themler can be considered as tool for a developer with some experience.
Your note about the documentation as indeed true, but I'm not sure that we could create a book regarding Themler as the functionality was growing in a very dynamic way when it strated. The video tutorials are also may be not clear for the first sight. Themler is a tool that requires some time and
efforts from the start but then will give you a large possibilities in designing.
And by the way, developers had not trained our support team to work with Themler. We have tried it our selves as the simple users from the start and also we did several complete sites as the experiment.
The good way to start with is maybe take one of our samples from here:
http://templates.themler.io/Themes/Index?Search.RelatedMediaId=&perPage=30&sorter=Popular&Search.Key=&Search.CategoryID=&Search.FunctionalCategoryID=&Search.TemplateCategoryID=&Search.Artisteer=False&Search.Theme=True&Search.Section=False&Search.Page=False&Search.Cms=&Search.ShowFree=False&Search.ShowPaid=False

And make some minor edits. That will give you the ready website and will help you to understand how some settings do work.

In any case, please feel free to contact us with any questions you have and we'll be glad to help you.

Sincerely,
Hella

Hi Hella,

Thanks for your support and positive reply. I am going to try again.
I'll post some quick questions on a separate thread.

Cheers
Andy

> Hi, > > I would like to leave my 2 cents here. First of all I would like to say that Artisteer is far too limited compared to Themler. It even does not work good with the responsive modes. But indeed it is easier. Themler can be considered as tool for a developer with some experience. > Your note about the documentation as indeed true, but I'm not sure that we could create a book regarding Themler as the functionality was growing in a very dynamic way when it strated. The video tutorials are also may be not clear for the first sight. Themler is a tool that requires some time and > efforts from the start but then will give you a large possibilities in designing. > And by the way, developers had not trained our support team to work with Themler. We have tried it our selves as the simple users from the start and also we did several complete sites as the experiment. > The good way to start with is maybe take one of our samples from here: > http://templates.themler.io/Themes/Index?Search.RelatedMediaId=&perPage=30&sorter=Popular&Search.Key=&Search.CategoryID=&Search.FunctionalCategoryID=&Search.TemplateCategoryID=&Search.Artisteer=False&Search.Theme=True&Search.Section=False&Search.Page=False&Search.Cms=&Search.ShowFree=False&Search.ShowPaid=False > > And make some minor edits. That will give you the ready website and will help you to understand how some settings do work. > > In any case, please feel free to contact us with any questions you have and we'll be glad to help you. > > Sincerely, > Hella Hi Hella, Thanks for your support and positive reply. I am going to try again. I'll post some quick questions on a separate thread. Cheers Andy
Support Team
Support Team posted this 31 January 2018

Hi,

Sure, we'll be glad to help.

Sincerely,
Hella

Hi, Sure, we'll be glad to help. Sincerely, Hella
Stefan135
5 Posts
Stefan135 posted this 10 April 2018

Hey guys, a bit of necro here.

I own both Artisteer and TT, and I am trying to play a bit with Themler, but even if I know coding, and html and css have no secrets for me, Themler seems to be extremely unintuitive and a very big step back from Artisteer. Despite the fact that it seems to use the latest technologies it is way too clunky for me, and even if I get a discount for using my Artisteer license it doesn't matter.

The only issue I have is that TT seems to still be in a late Beta stage, and I really don't like that since I payed 150 bucks. But what's the alternative? Artisteer has a great way to define a layout and tweak each individual module of a theme, Themler seems to be the opposite. And probably because it has many features hidden behind the online security layer it annoys me that sometimes it freezes for a couple of seconds.

I don't like to use Suggest and stuff like that, I like to build everything methodically, Themler seems to do it terribly wrong. I am a bit disappointed that you took a step back from Artisteer and moved on to this model, Artisteer used to be my starting point, then it was tweaking the code. Artisteer had a modular approach with tabs for each section. Themler seems to open and close various tabs in the bar depending on what I click, also freezing sometimes for a couple of seconds.

I must say that you did a terrible job guys, I'd really wish you'd move back to the Artisteer model and drop this, it's pretty clear that TT has more clients, just check their traffic and visitors. I hope you will reconsider your position and start working on Artisteer again.

Cheers

Hey guys, a bit of necro here. I own both Artisteer and TT, and I am trying to play a bit with Themler, but even if I know coding, and html and css have no secrets for me, Themler seems to be extremely unintuitive and a very big step back from Artisteer. Despite the fact that it seems to use the latest technologies it is way too clunky for me, and even if I get a discount for using my Artisteer license it doesn't matter. The only issue I have is that TT seems to still be in a late Beta stage, and I really don't like that since I payed 150 bucks. But what's the alternative? Artisteer has a great way to define a layout and tweak each individual module of a theme, Themler seems to be the opposite. And probably because it has many features hidden behind the online security layer it annoys me that sometimes it freezes for a couple of seconds. I don't like to use Suggest and stuff like that, I like to build everything methodically, Themler seems to do it terribly wrong. I am a bit disappointed that you took a step back from Artisteer and moved on to this model, Artisteer used to be my starting point, then it was tweaking the code. Artisteer had a modular approach with tabs for each section. Themler seems to open and close various tabs in the bar depending on what I click, also freezing sometimes for a couple of seconds. I must say that you did a terrible job guys, I'd really wish you'd move back to the Artisteer model and drop this, it's pretty clear that TT has more clients, just check their traffic and visitors. I hope you will reconsider your position and start working on Artisteer again. Cheers
Pixie Magic
60 Posts
Pixie Magic posted this 11 April 2018

Hi Necra,

I have similar feelings. On the one hand i would love for Themler to quickly show me clear advantages over Artisteer because Artisteer was brilliant. The only thing missing from Artisteer was it's own CMS. A true white label CMS, that Artisteer (or even Themler) users could sell on to their own clients under their own brand.

Also training if Themler is so good why not offer a 1 or 2 day training course where you can show us how to use the damn thing. Artisteer was never this hard.

It's a shame, Themler could have been a real player. Or Artisteer which already was a significant player, could have continued to evolve. Artisteer/Themler have currently missed this boat. Other companies already offer a solution with built in CMS and True White Label and the prices are competitive, although they are not much further ahead than Artisteer, at least their is CMS.

I still think Artsteer or Themler could strike back and move into the top slot again, but the opportunity is fast closing. 2018 could be do or die for Themler!

I also agree on template Toaster, even the latest version seems to have little or no significant advantage over Artisteer and TT have also missed the opportunity to add in a True White Label CMS which web designers can sell onto their clients.

I find it hard to believe that Artisteer/Themler have not after 3 years of repeated requests listened to the users here in the support forums. So i hope that behind the scenes they are working on a solution that meets a Web designers evolving requirements. I still 'hope' they will realise what they are missing and what they are about to lose if they don't get the following sorted soon.

  1. True white label CMS for Themler (and Artisteer) not dependent upon WP, etc.
  2. Or at least an 'easy' way to install and operate Themler off line, as with Artisteer. You should never have to be online to build websites! My experience with Themler online was a battle from day 1.
  3. Better instructions, might have helped. Videos without music! Voice overs, Example sites, evolving templates for designers to buy.
  4. A way for designers to sell our templates to bolster the templates available and show what can be achieved.
  5. Instant chat support was a big miss. This has been so fast, productive and helpful with our other solutions hosting/web design that we will no longer sell a product without instant chat support. I believe there should also be telephone support.

NB:
If you had instant chat and telephone support, you could even charge resellers extra for this. Although if you commit to support your reseller then they will sell licenses for the CMS to every website they build so effectively you are training your resellers to make more sales for you.
Win Win.

  1. And a road map. And independent reviews. And training!

I am sure there are a few other things, but the deal breaker for me now when using any software is to look at the best template built so far with a piece of software and if it isn't better than the competition then where is the incentive for me to sell it.

At this point i will give a positive example for Artisteer but show why Themler just does not seem to have it, as far as i can see! This link shows one of the better Themler templates. Designed in 2015 and updated in 2016. Has there been anything better built since then?

http://templates.themler.io/Themes/Preview?id=1896630

But it's not so special. I am sure we can all still design much better things in Artisteer, and much quicker.

So i am left thinking Themler should be brilliant by now, evolving from Artisteer, with 3 years of development, really we should all be singing Themler praises, but where is the evidence.

STILL - I AM KEEPING AN OPEN MIND

So if someone could show me some amazing websites built with Themler and answer my questions above then maybe i will come back and take another look.

All the best.

Hi Necra, I have similar feelings. On the one hand i would love for Themler to quickly show me clear advantages over Artisteer because Artisteer was brilliant. The only thing missing from Artisteer was it's own CMS. A true white label CMS, that Artisteer (or even Themler) users could sell on to their own clients under their own brand. Also training if Themler is so good why not offer a 1 or 2 day training course where you can show us how to use the damn thing. Artisteer was never this hard. It's a shame, Themler could have been a real player. Or Artisteer which already was a significant player, could have continued to evolve. Artisteer/Themler have currently missed this boat. Other companies already offer a solution with built in CMS and True White Label and the prices are competitive, although they are not much further ahead than Artisteer, at least their is CMS. I still think Artsteer or Themler could strike back and move into the top slot again, but the opportunity is fast closing. 2018 could be do or die for Themler! I also agree on template Toaster, even the latest version seems to have little or no significant advantage over Artisteer and TT have also missed the opportunity to add in a True White Label CMS which web designers can sell onto their clients. I find it hard to believe that Artisteer/Themler have not after 3 years of repeated requests listened to the users here in the support forums. So i hope that behind the scenes they are working on a solution that meets a Web designers evolving requirements. I still 'hope' they will realise what they are missing and what they are about to lose if they don't get the following sorted soon. 1. True white label CMS for Themler (and Artisteer) not dependent upon WP, etc. 2. Or at least an 'easy' way to install and operate Themler off line, as with Artisteer. You should never have to be online to build websites! My experience with Themler online was a battle from day 1. 3. Better instructions, might have helped. Videos without music! Voice overs, Example sites, evolving templates for designers to buy. 4. A way for designers to sell our templates to bolster the templates available and show what can be achieved. 5. Instant chat support was a big miss. This has been so fast, productive and helpful with our other solutions hosting/web design that we will no longer sell a product without instant chat support. I believe there should also be telephone support. NB: If you had instant chat and telephone support, you could even charge resellers extra for this. Although if you commit to support your reseller then they will sell licenses for the CMS to every website they build so effectively you are training your resellers to make more sales for you. Win Win. 1. And a road map. And independent reviews. And training! I am sure there are a few other things, but the deal breaker for me now when using any software is to look at the best template built so far with a piece of software and if it isn't better than the competition then where is the incentive for me to sell it. At this point i will give a positive example for Artisteer but show why Themler just does not seem to have it, as far as i can see! This link shows one of the better Themler templates. Designed in 2015 and updated in 2016. Has there been anything better built since then? http://templates.themler.io/Themes/Preview?id=1896630 But it's not so special. I am sure we can all still design much better things in Artisteer, and much quicker. So i am left thinking Themler should be brilliant by now, evolving from Artisteer, with 3 years of development, really we should all be singing Themler praises, but where is the evidence. STILL - I AM KEEPING AN OPEN MIND So if someone could show me some amazing websites built with Themler and answer my questions above then maybe i will come back and take another look. All the best.
Stefan135
5 Posts
Stefan135 posted this 11 April 2018

Hm, maybe the market for such a software is not so lucrative, and people might prefer premade themes ready to be tweaked, so there is no financial argument to develop this type of software actively, I don't know. Or maybe they lack marketing skills to push the software into the light, but anyway, the Themler approach seems terrible. The Artisteer forum seems pretty dead with a lot of spam on it, that also says lots about it, it's not such a big fuss to make a spam protection filter for registration and posts.

It's like people gave up and the development is reduced to tiny bits, none for Artisteer and bits for Themler, that's the feeling.

And I am not sure that better instructions would help with Themler. If a seasoned developer with programming skills and diplomas has a lot of problems in dealing with it, it means that something is terribly broken.

Despite the feeling of "beta"iness that I have with TT, the guys seem pretty active, with quick support, live chat, and a willingness to help ( half of my questions where pretty stupid, yet they answered :)) ). The support seems very open minded, and one of my suggestion already made its place in the next update, while the other suggestions were already present in a much better form, but I missed them.

My general feeling now is Template Toaster > Artisteer > Themler. Even if Themler supposedly offers top notch design technologies, the way it does ( if it really does it ) makes it a pain in the arse instead of a useful tool. I installed it 3 times trying to convince myself to upgrade from Artisteer but I see absolutely no reason why I should use it instead of TT, even if TT still needs polishing.

PS: TT has tons of updates, this means that it is very actively developed, which is great. Almost every day of work with TT comes with an update.

Hm, maybe the market for such a software is not so lucrative, and people might prefer premade themes ready to be tweaked, so there is no financial argument to develop this type of software actively, I don't know. Or maybe they lack marketing skills to push the software into the light, but anyway, the Themler approach seems terrible. The Artisteer forum seems pretty dead with a lot of spam on it, that also says lots about it, it's not such a big fuss to make a spam protection filter for registration and posts. It's like people gave up and the development is reduced to tiny bits, none for Artisteer and bits for Themler, that's the feeling. And I am not sure that better instructions would help with Themler. If a seasoned developer with programming skills and diplomas has a lot of problems in dealing with it, it means that something is terribly broken. Despite the feeling of "beta"iness that I have with TT, the guys seem pretty active, with quick support, live chat, and a willingness to help ( half of my questions where pretty stupid, yet they answered :)) ). The support seems very open minded, and one of my suggestion already made its place in the next update, while the other suggestions were already present in a much better form, but I missed them. My general feeling now is Template Toaster > Artisteer > Themler. Even if Themler supposedly offers top notch design technologies, the way it does ( if it really does it ) makes it a pain in the arse instead of a useful tool. I installed it 3 times trying to convince myself to upgrade from Artisteer but I see absolutely no reason why I should use it instead of TT, even if TT still needs polishing. PS: TT has tons of updates, this means that it is very actively developed, which is great. Almost every day of work with TT comes with an update.

Last edited 11 April 2018 by Stefan135

Pixie Magic
60 Posts
Pixie Magic posted this 11 April 2018

Hi Stefan,

I agree with your sentiment, it's just seems so strange that the developers would let a cracking bit of software such as Artisteer fall by the wayside. BTW, i think Artisteer is still getting minor updates! When i first heard about Themler i honestly thought, hey they've really been listening and they are going to produce an amazing piece of software! Something every web designer would need in his tool kit, perhaps his primary tool. Certainly Artisteer had become mine.

I also agree support has been very good and they do get back to all relevant/serious inquiries. They clearly seem to believe in Themler, as do some users! But like yourself every time i tried i got fed up. I'll probably just sit on the sidelines now and if they ever release a serious upgrade for Themler that addresses the core problems i might be tempted back.

But in the meantime i just see the competition growing stronger. I'm keeping an eye on TT but not personally convinced, thus far.

My own thought is that the biggest gap in the reseller market is for.

  1. An ordinary inbuilt web designer, maybe a cross between Themler/Artisteer and TT, but with the addition of an inbuilt CMS for ordinary .HTML sites, which resellers can sell on True White Label under their own brand. THIS WOULD BE A MASSIVE SELLER and everyone wins.

  2. Even better if the software had an option for compatability with some sort of reseller hosting at realistic prices, everyone wins again.

  3. And if there was a central control panel like with Duda then that's all the main bases covered.

I guess we can only dream!
:-)

Hi Stefan, I agree with your sentiment, it's just seems so strange that the developers would let a cracking bit of software such as Artisteer fall by the wayside. BTW, i think Artisteer is still getting minor updates! When i first heard about Themler i honestly thought, hey they've really been listening and they are going to produce an amazing piece of software! Something every web designer would need in his tool kit, perhaps his primary tool. Certainly Artisteer had become mine. I also agree support has been very good and they do get back to all relevant/serious inquiries. They clearly seem to believe in Themler, as do some users! But like yourself every time i tried i got fed up. I'll probably just sit on the sidelines now and if they ever release a serious upgrade for Themler that addresses the core problems i might be tempted back. But in the meantime i just see the competition growing stronger. I'm keeping an eye on TT but not personally convinced, thus far. My own thought is that the biggest gap in the reseller market is for. 1. An ordinary inbuilt web designer, maybe a cross between Themler/Artisteer and TT, but with the addition of an inbuilt CMS for ordinary .HTML sites, which resellers can sell on True White Label under their own brand. THIS WOULD BE A MASSIVE SELLER and everyone wins. 2. Even better if the software had an option for compatability with some sort of reseller hosting at realistic prices, everyone wins again. 3. And if there was a central control panel like with Duda then that's all the main bases covered. I guess we can only dream! :-)
Stefan135
5 Posts
Stefan135 posted this 11 April 2018

Or we can do as most of the small developers do :)) Take one of the big themes out there and modify it. Most of the small and medium developers do that. Custom themes = modified themes. But I really hate to modify something else, I'd rather build the rough modules of a theme and then modify it myself.

Or we can do as most of the small developers do :)) Take one of the big themes out there and modify it. Most of the small and medium developers do that. Custom themes = modified themes. But I really hate to modify something else, I'd rather build the rough modules of a theme and then modify it myself.
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