UPage and Themler! A step in the right direction?

Pixie Magic
60 Posts
Pixie Magic posted this 18 January 2018

Dear Support,

IMHO - The largest untapped market for Web design software is still the.... White label Unbranded Reseller Web Design Marketplace!

Artisteer had it for a moment. Themler could still grab it simply with...

  1. Better instructions and videos
  2. The missing features users have asked for
  3. Ongoing TLC and most importantly
  4. A simple CMS for clients on the Themler .html version, something i mentioned 2 or 3 years ago.
  5. A way to import website content from existing websites.

Q's
1. When approximately will uPage be ready?

  1. Will it have better installation and design instructions than Themler did?

  2. Will it have a clear road map going forward?

  3. Can we have a clear roadmap of how it can be used in conjunction with Themler?

Notes:
If you do not continue to support and develop Themler (which from the sounds of it is just getting going), then I worry that your user base will not trust you with another new product tangent. Can you convince us there is a roadmap for Themler or why uPage is the answer to all things Themler is not going to be!

Also, I wonder if Web designers and Website resellers really want to keep using Wordpress, etc.
I don't think we all do! Another option would be very useful, such as Themler with CMS for clients.

My issues are not those of a someone who knows Themler very well (understand my opinion on Themler is hearsay - read in the forums) but of someone who loved Artisteer and who wants to be convinced to keep the faith and progress to Themler. The only thing that stopped me last time was doubt and the instructions! At this stage i am 80% certain i do not want to even think about another product such as uPage. I am happy to be convinced otherwise but as of today, i have not read anything convincing!

I hope you will write an answer that will put my mind at ease and convince me to stay with your products. Ideally i want you to convince me that Themler will be supported in the long term and that uPage will be designed to compliment Themler, not replace it.

Or alternatively if uPage is supposed to replace both Artisteer and Themler in the long term then uPage will need to do what Artisteer did (or what Themler is intended to do - but simpler), that way i will be able to drop the use of Artisteer and stop looking around the market place for a product like Artisteer and start using Themler knowing that uPage will not be a threat to Themler investment but a complimentary product.

I think at the very least we need an indepth article from the software team to clear up all things, Artisteer, Themler, uPage, Wordpress and perhaps Woo Commerce (e-commerce in general).

General Concerns:

I was hoping Themler might be the product to replace Artisteer but your own comments have left me worried. You said on your own uPage Blog.


Our previous successful products, Artisteer and Themler, have unsolvable constraints:

Artisteer designs became outdated, and it is not scalable.
Themler is not easy-to-use, and its performance does not meet the modern customer expectations.
These limitations do not allow our users to build great-looking websites fast.


As a long term Artisteer user i have to disagree about building sites. I found it very quick to build sites once i had learnt the product. If Themler is quicker and more powerful as originally advertised then surely that should be a big step forward.

Many users are only just starting to convert over from Artisteer to Themler as tmany held back because firstly Artisteer was not broken and did a job. Secondly the instructions and videos for Themler were poor and many questions were left unanswered. Now you will forgive me but it does feel like you are about to abandon Themler.

Another Issue:
I was very disappointed to hear that I will not be able to offer Themes created in Themler for sale in a Themes marketplace. Ironic perhaps considering I have still not made the transition from Artisteer to Themler. But nevertheless as i was waiting to see how Themler developed you can understand my frustration that things promised have not materialised.

Looking at the beta page for uPage i can see some warning signs are already there and if this is not adressed with a road map and better understanding this could quickly lead to negativity in Web design forums.

I really hope i will be proved wrong. IMHO you need to address this fully and quickly and it's not just your client base you need to convince it's also the press. The people that write the reviews as IMO they are clearly driving the larger markets and if they don't understand where you are going, Artisteer, Themler, uPage then you will not get your products out to the largest possible market.
I.E The Web Design Reseller market. The largest untapped market niche that large software companies are turning to!

I hope you will see where i am coming from and write a proper road map for how Themler and uPage or Artisteer and uPage will be developed in such a way that you will maximise your success.

Can i also ask if you are designing uPage to work in conjunction with Themler or Artisteer? Or is it designed as a replacement for one or both. I would like to see you succeed as there is a big gap in the market for a good quality White Label reseller Web design product like Artisteer had become, or like Themler had potential to become, but my concern is that you might be misunderstanding what the market needs or wants!

Themler was going to be the answer to all things Artisteer was not able to not become, (although a brilliant product in its day and still holds it's own), and some on the forums say that after the long learning curve it had become anreally good package for them. But it seems that it might be a little slow to learn to use. IMO this is down to the lack of clear instructions and lack of videos with voice over!

Some insight from a client perspective.

I think the biggest problem with Themler was not the difficulty of the install or the difficulty of learning, but the lack of proper instructions, manuals and videos. This is true of many products out there currenty. Good products, poor instructions and rubbish tutorials.

Don't get me wrong you made a good attempt at a big library but it seems to lack a process of steps and very quickly got confusing, leaving you with lots of questions in the support forums that then caused negativity in the market.

Now here with uPage it seems you are about to repeat the mistake of abandoning a good product all over again (i.e. This time Themler) and thereby further upsetting your user base again!

NB:
In any case, whatever you decide with with uPage if you make your instructional videos have quality voice over explanations and not music I am sure the product will have a better chance of success on a larger scale.

All the best.

Dear Support, IMHO - The largest untapped market for Web design software is still the.... White label Unbranded Reseller Web Design Marketplace! Artisteer had it for a moment. Themler could still grab it simply with... 1. Better instructions and videos 2. The missing features users have asked for 3. Ongoing TLC and most importantly 4. A simple CMS for clients on the Themler .html version, something i mentioned 2 or 3 years ago. 5. A way to import website content from existing websites. Q's 1. When approximately will uPage be ready? 2. Will it have better installation and design instructions than Themler did? 3. Will it have a clear road map going forward? 4. Can we have a clear roadmap of how it can be used in conjunction with Themler? Notes: If you do not continue to support and develop Themler (which from the sounds of it is just getting going), then I worry that your user base will not trust you with another new product tangent. Can you convince us there is a roadmap for Themler or why uPage is the answer to all things Themler is not going to be! Also, I wonder if Web designers and Website resellers really want to keep using Wordpress, etc. I don't think we all do! Another option would be very useful, such as Themler with CMS for clients. My issues are not those of a someone who knows Themler very well (understand my opinion on Themler is hearsay - read in the forums) but of someone who loved Artisteer and who wants to be convinced to keep the faith and progress to Themler. The only thing that stopped me last time was doubt and the instructions! At this stage i am 80% certain i do not want to even think about another product such as uPage. I am happy to be convinced otherwise but as of today, i have not read anything convincing! I hope you will write an answer that will put my mind at ease and convince me to stay with your products. Ideally i want you to convince me that Themler will be supported in the long term and that uPage will be designed to compliment Themler, not replace it. Or alternatively if uPage is supposed to replace both Artisteer and Themler in the long term then uPage will need to do what Artisteer did (or what Themler is intended to do - but simpler), that way i will be able to drop the use of Artisteer and stop looking around the market place for a product like Artisteer and start using Themler knowing that uPage will not be a threat to Themler investment but a complimentary product. I think at the very least we need an indepth article from the software team to clear up all things, Artisteer, Themler, uPage, Wordpress and perhaps Woo Commerce (e-commerce in general). General Concerns: I was hoping Themler might be the product to replace Artisteer but your own comments have left me worried. You said on your own uPage Blog. ***** Our previous successful products, Artisteer and Themler, have unsolvable constraints: Artisteer designs became outdated, and it is not scalable. Themler is not easy-to-use, and its performance does not meet the modern customer expectations. These limitations do not allow our users to build great-looking websites fast. ***** As a long term Artisteer user i have to disagree about building sites. I found it very quick to build sites once i had learnt the product. If Themler is quicker and more powerful as originally advertised then surely that should be a big step forward. Many users are only just starting to convert over from Artisteer to Themler as tmany held back because firstly Artisteer was not broken and did a job. Secondly the instructions and videos for Themler were poor and many questions were left unanswered. Now you will forgive me but it does feel like you are about to abandon Themler. Another Issue: I was very disappointed to hear that I will not be able to offer Themes created in Themler for sale in a Themes marketplace. Ironic perhaps considering I have still not made the transition from Artisteer to Themler. But nevertheless as i was waiting to see how Themler developed you can understand my frustration that things promised have not materialised. Looking at the beta page for uPage i can see some warning signs are already there and if this is not adressed with a road map and better understanding this could quickly lead to negativity in Web design forums. I really hope i will be proved wrong. IMHO you need to address this fully and quickly and it's not just your client base you need to convince it's also the press. The people that write the reviews as IMO they are clearly driving the larger markets and if they don't understand where you are going, Artisteer, Themler, uPage then you will not get your products out to the largest possible market. I.E The Web Design Reseller market. The largest untapped market niche that large software companies are turning to! I hope you will see where i am coming from and write a proper road map for how Themler and uPage or Artisteer and uPage will be developed in such a way that you will maximise your success. Can i also ask if you are designing uPage to work in conjunction with Themler or Artisteer? Or is it designed as a replacement for one or both. I would like to see you succeed as there is a big gap in the market for a good quality White Label reseller Web design product like Artisteer had become, or like Themler had potential to become, but my concern is that you might be misunderstanding what the market needs or wants! Themler was going to be the answer to all things Artisteer was not able to not become, (although a brilliant product in its day and still holds it's own), and some on the forums say that after the long learning curve it had become anreally good package for them. But it seems that it might be a little slow to learn to use. IMO this is down to the lack of clear instructions and lack of videos with voice over! Some insight from a client perspective. I think the biggest problem with Themler was not the difficulty of the install or the difficulty of learning, but the lack of proper instructions, manuals and videos. This is true of many products out there currenty. Good products, poor instructions and rubbish tutorials. Don't get me wrong you made a good attempt at a big library but it seems to lack a process of steps and very quickly got confusing, leaving you with lots of questions in the support forums that then caused negativity in the market. Now here with uPage it seems you are about to repeat the mistake of abandoning a good product all over again (i.e. This time Themler) and thereby further upsetting your user base again! NB: In any case, whatever you decide with with uPage if you make your instructional videos have quality voice over explanations and not music I am sure the product will have a better chance of success on a larger scale. All the best.
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9 Comments
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moon21
3 Posts
Is Solution
moon21 posted this 23 January 2018

Totally agree. Insightful proposals. Please listen !!

Totally agree. Insightful proposals. Please listen !!
Administración web
59 Posts
Administración web posted this 23 January 2018

Todos deseamos que Themler sea Mejor y que nunca dejen el Soporte!, porque la verdad es simple, no hay mejor actualmente que Themler, es mejor que Artister y aún es mucho mejor de Upage, es como dice Pixie Magic, FALTA Documentación, faltan más respuestas, por qué no MÁS IDIOMAS, pero Themler es el mejor, tiene un sivel superior y no solo que Artisteer y Upage sino que otros de su competencia.

Todos deseamos que Themler sea Mejor y que nunca dejen el Soporte!, porque la verdad es simple, no hay mejor actualmente que Themler, es mejor que Artister y aún es mucho mejor de Upage, es como dice Pixie Magic, FALTA Documentación, faltan más respuestas, por qué no MÁS IDIOMAS, pero Themler es el mejor, tiene un sivel superior y no solo que Artisteer y Upage sino que otros de su competencia.
Vitaliy WD
296 Posts
Vitaliy WD posted this 23 January 2018

Maybe it's time for Themler 2.0.

There is one idea to make Themler powerful as it is now and make it simple as uPage.
This idea: make one option in Themler with Simple / Expert mode switcher.

Here is example: http://smartslider3.helpscoutdocs.com/article/406-secondary-navigation-bar

So Themler 2.0 with Simple / Expert mode switcher will be very good idea and product.
Just look how great it can be: https://youtu.be/orld-gwFG5A?t=10s

And second reason to make Themler 2.0: Bootstrap 4, that almost stable.
Also on horizon: Joomla 4 and Wordpress 5.

There is no future for uPage (IMHO), uPage is just like a toy for kids.

Maybe it's time for Themler 2.0. There is one idea to make Themler powerful as it is now and make it simple as uPage. This idea: make one option in Themler with **Simple** / **Expert** mode switcher. Here is example: http://smartslider3.helpscoutdocs.com/article/406-secondary-navigation-bar So Themler 2.0 with Simple / Expert mode switcher will be very good idea and product. Just look how great it can be: https://youtu.be/orld-gwFG5A?t=10s And second reason to make Themler 2.0: Bootstrap 4, that almost stable. Also on horizon: Joomla 4 and Wordpress 5. There is no future for uPage (IMHO), uPage is just like a toy for kids.
Support Team
Support Team posted this 24 January 2018

Hello,

Thank you for your comments.

When approximately will uPage be ready?

Unfortunately we cannot provide you with the time line yet.

Will it have better installation and design instructions than Themler did?

W'ere trying to make uPage intuitive so that you can create website without additional documentation. But we plan to do documentation.

Will it have a clear road map going forward?

Unfortunately cannot say whether uPage will have clear roadmap or not. Even if we create it we'll rewrite it every week :-)

Can we have a clear roadmap of how it can be used in conjunction with Themler?

uPage is an independent theme and content builder which can be used separately as theme builder or as content builder. In case of content building the content can be used with any theme because uPage has own framework unlike Themler which uses bootstrap.

uPage is simple when Themler in a little difficult to understand. But in the same time Themler is an advanced theme generator which allows you customize each aspect of the theme when the uPage is based on the construction of ready-made sections. I would say that these are different applications for different needs and for users with different skill levels.

Thank you,
Olivia

Hello, Thank you for your comments. > When approximately will uPage be ready? Unfortunately we cannot provide you with the time line yet. > Will it have better installation and design instructions than Themler did? W'ere trying to make uPage intuitive so that you can create website without additional documentation. But we plan to do documentation. > Will it have a clear road map going forward? Unfortunately cannot say whether uPage will have clear roadmap or not. Even if we create it we'll rewrite it every week :-) > Can we have a clear roadmap of how it can be used in conjunction with Themler? uPage is an independent theme and content builder which can be used separately as theme builder or as content builder. In case of content building the content can be used with any theme because uPage has own framework unlike Themler which uses bootstrap. uPage is simple when Themler in a little difficult to understand. But in the same time Themler is an advanced theme generator which allows you customize each aspect of the theme when the uPage is based on the construction of ready-made sections. I would say that these are different applications for different needs and for users with different skill levels. Thank you, Olivia
Vitaliy WD
296 Posts
Vitaliy WD posted this 26 January 2018

I hope that you will have commercial success with uPage.
As you say: "these are different applications for different needs and for users with different skill levels" - hope that you will not forget Themler... now all developers work on uPage. And no one can say when developers team will be back to Themler.

Can you share statistic - how many active users have Themler and uPage?

I hope that you will have commercial success with uPage. As you say: "these are different applications for different needs and for users with different skill levels" - hope that you will not forget Themler... now all developers work on uPage. And no one can say when developers team will be back to Themler. Can you share statistic - how many active users have Themler and uPage?
Pixie Magic
60 Posts
Pixie Magic posted this 26 January 2018

I'd be interested to know how many have just carried on using Artisteer?

I suspect one good training webinar and thousands would convert to Themler, IF Themler is going to be supported!

Also for those that have fled the nest, where did you go?

I'd be interested to know how many have just carried on using Artisteer? I suspect one good training webinar and thousands would convert to Themler, IF Themler is going to be supported! Also for those that have fled the nest, where did you go?
Support Team
Support Team posted this 29 January 2018

Hi,

Can you share statistic - how many active users have Themler and uPage?

Since we did not promote uPage yet and it has status early Beta it has very few users who try uPage. We released Themler a few years ago and it has a lot of active customers. Therefore there is no point to compare the number of active users of these two applications.

Currently we do not plan to close Themler project. Our developers fix existing bugs and we plan to release new update with bug fixes in the near future.

Thank you,
Olivia

Hi, > Can you share statistic - how many active users have Themler and uPage? Since we did not promote uPage yet and it has status early Beta it has very few users who try uPage. We released Themler a few years ago and it has a lot of active customers. Therefore there is no point to compare the number of active users of these two applications. Currently we do not plan to close Themler project. Our developers fix existing bugs and we plan to release new update with bug fixes in the near future. Thank you, Olivia
Pixie Magic
60 Posts
Pixie Magic posted this 21 March 2018

Hi, Is there any news on the following yet?

  1. A client side CMS for ordinary HTML websites. Charge them £20-£50, whatever but build one, it's a product that will sell.

  2. Upgrades to themler that will make it easier to set up and use with Wordpress.

NB
I stopped using Artisteer/Themler (sometime after Artisteer ground to a halt), but if there was a good White Label and Unbranded CMS i could be tempted back to either Artisteer or Themler.

Currently my biggest complain is the lack of white label (unbranded) CMS that my clients can buy/use to edit the site after i have finished building it for them.

My second reason to stop using Themler was complexity of setup and the fact that it can not be used off line.

And finally the manual and training. Even to this day whenever i try to set up up Themler on a new PC it's a nightmare.

I wish your videos were better and had voice over.

Hope there are some positive answers and a road map coming this spring?

Many Thanks

Hi, Is there any news on the following yet? 1. A client side CMS for ordinary HTML websites. Charge them £20-£50, whatever but build one, it's a product that will sell. 2. Upgrades to themler that will make it easier to set up and use with Wordpress. NB I stopped using Artisteer/Themler (sometime after Artisteer ground to a halt), but if there was a good White Label and Unbranded CMS i could be tempted back to either Artisteer or Themler. Currently my biggest complain is the lack of white label (unbranded) CMS that my clients can buy/use to edit the site after i have finished building it for them. My second reason to stop using Themler was complexity of setup and the fact that it can not be used off line. And finally the manual and training. Even to this day whenever i try to set up up Themler on a new PC it's a nightmare. I wish your videos were better and had voice over. Hope there are some positive answers and a road map coming this spring? Many Thanks
Support Team
Support Team posted this 22 March 2018

Hi,

Unfortunately we do not plan to make own CMS for HTML websites.
WordPress theme are quite easy in use. These a regular themes with a little extended functionality. If you have any problems with WP themes please feel free to contact us via our support system.

Thank you,
Olivia

Hi, Unfortunately we do not plan to make own CMS for HTML websites. WordPress theme are quite easy in use. These a regular themes with a little extended functionality. If you have any problems with WP themes please feel free to contact us via our support system. Thank you, Olivia
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